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What does Vae Victus mean?

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the pale horseman

right!

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Posts: 1113

Dec 18 01 9:29 AM

Yes, latin "ae" is pronounced as "e". Kain says it as "vei" but we will forgive his prononciation

))

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Unregistered(d)

Re: What does Vae Victus mean?

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Posts: 0

Feb 11 02 10:20 PM

"Vae Victus" means "Woe to the Conquered". In the 300 somesuch BC, the Celts had sacked Rome. The Romans so wanted to get rid of the Celts that they agreed to give the Celts 1000 pounds of gold if they would leave Rome.

While the gold was being measured, the Romans complained that the Celts were using rigged weights. The leader of the Celts, Brennus, threw his sword on the scale and stated "Ve Victus". Woe to the Conquered. He then bid them to balance the scale with the weight of his sword added since they complained.

Chaos Descending, The Non-Motion Picture

braveheart7702

Re: What does Vae Victus mean?

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Posts: 13

Apr 16 02 1:04 PM

It is Latin: "Alas to the conquered!" I have taken Latin for two years...vae victus, in proper Latin, is pronounced "why wicktus."

"I would choose INTEGRITY!"

Unregistered(d)

Re: What does Vae Victus mean?

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Posts: 0

Apr 18 02 7:35 AM

Vae means Woe and Victus means living. Which would mean "Woe to the Living"
My latin teacher imformed me of that

Real Ragnarok

Re: What does Vae Victus mean?

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Posts: 1

Feb 21 03 7:01 AM

Hi I am portuguese and I think "Vae Victus" is pronounced like "Vigh".
I think Vae Victus means suffering to the conquered not woe to the living since Kain is a very bad guy. :hat

Sarafan Raziel

Re: What does Vae Victus mean?

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Posts: 4

Apr 22 03 12:14 PM

Vae should be pronounced like Ve (just like in bed) and it means woe.
Apparently "Victus" means "life" or "lifestyle" but not in this context. Victus should be translated as "the conquered one" and should be pronounced with i like in the word sit.
Another thing is that Brennus - the Celtic leader - didn't say "Vae Victus" to Romans, but "Vae Vici" (because it's plural

).
Those who said that "Vae Victus" means "woe to the conquered" and that correct prononciation is Ve (just like mentioned above) Victus were right; others not! :-)

I am Polish but I know some latin

PS. Forgive me my English - it's getting worse and worse ...

Claidheamb mor

Re: What does Vae Victus mean?

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Posts: 4799

May 2 03 9:33 PM

Shove Ha'penny Hustler

Well,the Open University textbook suggests that "vae" should be pronounced "wy" since no English pronounciation "v" exists in Latin. Therefore victus is actually "wictus".

Sarafan Raziel

Re: What does Vae Victus mean?

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Posts: 4

May 3 03 1:47 AM

Well... there are two ways of pronouncing "v" in latin:
one of them is, what i mentioned before, "v" like 'video'
the second is "w" like 'woe' or 'wow'
I don't know which one is more correct, but I will tell you the difference in 4/5 days.
you're totally uncorrect that "vae" should be pronounced "wy" - where did you find it out? Anyway - group "ae" is ALWAYS pronounced "e" like in "bed".

By the way... I've made a mistake: I said that Celtic general said Vae Vicis... eh... he didn't. He said Vae Victis (I don't know how could I've made such a mistake!?)

Claidheamb mor

Re: What does Vae Victus mean?

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Posts: 4799

May 3 03 12:57 PM

Shove Ha'penny Hustler

Sarafan Raziel-I`m only going on what the Open University says;basically,it should be spelled "uae uictus".the grouping ae is a dipthong, and both elements should be pronounced seperately-and by the way,the O U actually use the word "why" as a reference for proper pronounciation.Remember-the Romans always had u and v look the same - Julius was JVLIVS.

Claidheamb mor

Re: What does Vae Victus mean?

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Posts: 4799

May 3 03 1:02 PM

Shove Ha'penny Hustler

Euclio senex est!

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narriman

Re: What does Vae Victus mean?

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Posts: 2

May 8 03 8:18 PM

I'm quite sure of how vae victus is pronounced (8 years passed studying Latin aren't for nothing), the only think I don't know is how tell you what I know =P
As I said, there are two kind of pronunciations, one older (called "pronuncia restituita" in my language, used by latins around I century BC) and another that usually teachers prefer.
So Vae Victus can be read Ve Victus, as there wasn't an "a" (e like in bed) or vae victus (no doubt about victus =P)
In the same way, Caesar can be read Caesar, (reading both a and e, C like Cat) or Cesar (reading only the "e", i can't explain you how read "C" cause I really don't know a single english word where "C" is pronounced as I want =P).

So,
yes "ae" is a diphthong but can be read "e" (4*- 5* century AD) or "A-e" (I century BC)...
and V is like V in video, I can't remember any word with the other pronunciation... anyway "V" like in video is the MOST used and that's for sure.

That's a pity I can't find my Latin vocabulary, I can't scannerize it =( but It says: "vae victus: Woe to the Conquered". well, actually it's written in italian =PPP.
And Vae victis (plural) is used by Livio here (The story is the one that Chaos Descending told us before):

"Rei foedissimae per se adiecta indignitas est; pondera ab gallis allata iniqua et tribuno recusante additus ab insolente Gallo ponderi gladius auditaque intoleranda Romanis vox: Vae victis."

btw, I agree with serafan raziel. ^^

I apologize again for my english,

Narriman
Member of the Legacy of Kain fanlist.

Claidheamb mor

Re: What does Vae Victus mean?

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Posts: 4799

May 9 03 3:18 AM

Shove Ha'penny Hustler

So nice to see a long debate with articulate people (for once) on a site about games! I am far,far from being fluent in classical Latin,my pronouncition guides are from the O U books, not from off the top of my head.PS narriman, would you say I`m learning "teacher`s" Latin? In the O U cassettes they say "ka-esar" (trilled r).

FaaipDeOiad462

Re: What does Vae Victus mean?

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Posts: 1

Nov 16 03 11:07 PM

I would like to say one thing. I don't mean to be rude and this is my first post, well, ever but, I have taken Latin for 4 years now. And I think of myself as pretty good at translation and history. That is beside the point though. Italian, the current national language of the country of Italy did not come from Latin. Latin is a romance language as is Spanish, French and Romanian. Italian is more of an Anglo-Saxon language than anything even considering the slight similarities it is nowhere as closely related to Latin than Spanish or French. So I am afraid your comment is well, wrong.

Blood Scion

Re: What does Vae Victus mean?

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Posts: 86

Dec 10 03 1:45 PM

Your all wrong! Vae Victus means "Suffering to the Porch Monkeys" Kain hates them......I mean while he was in hell he wa like...Damn Porch Monkeys killed me..>THOSE BASTARDS!

____________________________________
My Love....

EnsisAeris

Re: What does Vae Victus mean?

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Posts: 1

Dec 5 06 1:33 AM

I just had to clear things up on this board...
I took 4 years of Latin in High School and I know what I'm talking about

First of all... the original phrase used by the Romans was VAE VICTIS.. not Victus! VAE VICTIS means "woe to the conquered."

As for pronunciation, a Roman would pronounce it as "why wiktees" (soft s as in "sleep", not z sound as in "please")

Now if you want to pronounce it medieval style, then it's "vay viktees."

In Classical Latin, V is pronounced as W, and AE is pronounced as "eye." In Medieval Latin, V is pronounced as V, and AE is pronounced as "ay" as in "stay."

As for the confusion with VICTUS and VICTIS. VICTUS is both a noun meaning "the living" and also the 4th principle part of the verb "vincere" which means "to conquer." The 4th principle part of "vincere" is victus. So Victus and Victus are homonyms. This is the root of the confusion.

In addition to this, Latin is an inflected language. This means that the end of a word can change. In English, we only have one remaining use of inflection... the use of 's such as in "Tommy's" to reflect the possesive case (it belongs to Tommy). This is the case in Latin. VICTIS is the dative plural form of VICTUS (meaning conquered). So VICTIS means "To the conquered." Dative is the case used to express the indirect object.

VICTUS meaning "living" has a different dative plural case, it simply remains VICTUS.

To summarize, VAE VICTIS means "Woe to the conquered" whereas VAE VICTUS is grammatically incorrect.

So hopefully this can finally settle everything!

Amos the Talented

Re: What does Vae Victus mean?

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Posts: 1460

Dec 31 07 8:53 AM

THANK MY LACK OF GOD!!! This is just what I was looking for. I always had trouble with the victus/victis debate. I'm glad I found this post before I got my new tatoo.

There is nothing to be feared, only understood.

Killer9win1

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Posts: 25

Jul 31 08 5:26 AM

He dosnt say Suffering, he was Woe, i think. I'll post back after i listen to the intro again *Turns game on*

Killer9win1

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Posts: 25

Jul 31 08 5:29 AM

Yes, Direct quote from game

"Finish him..."

"AGHHHH"

"Vae Victus...Woe To The Conqured"

So on and so on..

WillingSpirit

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Posts: 971

Dec 3 09 5:45 PM

Woe to the conquered.

Raziel said it himself, so even though "Vae Victis" has a couple more variations in meaning, this one is strictly refered to the Legacy saga.

JoanaAraracap

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Posts: 1

Mar 15 10 6:28 AM

Vae Victis! one of the title in the novel of Dr. Jose Rizal "Noli Me Tangere"
Vae Victis means for the conquered have no rights...
it's all about how Filipino suffered through hands of the Spanish..

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What does Vae Victus mean?